Tusk: I'm not retiring yet

The former prime minister was talking about his political future and his possible return to the domestic political scene, once his tenure in Brussels comes to an end.

"For sure I'm not retiring yet. My work in Brussels reminds me that I have the tools and knowledge which may prove useful," said Donald Tusk.

He stressed that he doesn’t feel the need to "predict any scenarios" concerning the future or to "devastate" the work done by the current government in Warsaw. He did confirm, however, that in 2019 he will return to Poland.

Asked about the current situation in his homeland, Mr Tusk said that from the perspective of the office that he holds, Poland is primarily a "big task".

"The situation in the EU is a bit more complicated than when I was prime minister. Therefore, remaining a neutral head of the European Council and, at the same time, protecting Poland’s vital interests demands a different approach. I have an international point of view, a number of concerns and even more reasons to get involved," explained Mr Tusk.

"There are fundamental reasons for concern, and it's not only my opinion, but I'm not talking about giving up," he said.

"What is happening in Poland, or should I say with Poland, I’ve been treating for years as a big task and a challenge," said Mr Tusk. He indicated that "the fact that Poland's international position is today, to put it mildly, more complicated, is something that I’m deeply worried about."

"This situation is caused by internal affairs and the actions made by the current government," he explained.

"The most difficult challenge today is to draw a fine line between helping Poland anywhere and in any way, while at the same time not justifying things that should never have happened," said the former prime minister.

"I won't hide the fact that the condition of my country, especially in the context of rule of law, abiding the constitution, independence of the judiciary, and all the other recent front page issues, keeps me worried about Poland 24/7," he added.

Commenting on the charges against Jacek K. (Mr Tusk used his full surname), the former deputy finance minister in his cabinet, the guest of TVN24 said that this case is a "glaring example of how easy it is today to abuse the law for political gains".

The district prosecutor of Białystok pressed charges against Jacek K. on Thursday. He is accused of professional negligence in exchange for material profit for another party, amounting to 21 billion zloty. Jacek K. pleaded not guilty.

Donald Tusk reassured on TVN24 that "both then and today", he is proud to have worked with Jacek K. "This issue is much more serious than any guesswork and speculation on whether it’s yet another attack on myself or on the opposition as a whole," said the former prime minister.

"I would like us to call a spade a spade. The whole state machinery, including the police, the prosecutors and the government-controlled TV are being used to smear a man who, in the said affairs, acted impeccably and displayed extraordinary courage and determination. That's how I remember the minister," he added.

According to the former PM, "it's devastating to the very essence of the rule of law". "In Poland, the law and the judiciary have become instruments of political confrontation," said Mr Tusk. In his opinion, it will not help with "rebuilding Poland’s reputation and the Polish state".

Donald Tusk was asked to share his opinion on the parliamentary committee about the VAT that PiS government is planning to convene. The draft resolution on that issue is to be submitted in the Sejm "right after Easter".

In Mr Tusk’s opinion, PiS "is not about finding the truth or seeking justice, but about becoming a political farce".

"We live in a country where the government elected after 2015 has gathered all the legal instruments in its hands. It raises the obvious question why, in such cases, the prosecutor's office or the appropriate apparatus don't work sufficiently? Why is this government in constant need for spectacle, for cameras and prosecutors who mostly are politicians? I have no doubt that PiS is attempting to create a state of permanent danger and sensation, not even bothering for any justification," he said.

When asked whether the former government could have tried harder to receive higher income from VAT, Mr Tusk replied that often information disseminated by PiS is "often completely unreliable, with no basis in reality. They are spreading the image of 'Poland in ruins' of the time when Civic Platform was in charge."

"The state has set all its apparatus for confrontation, against the opposition, on permanent defamation of the past, only to create an alibi either for its inability, or to cover up outright incompetence," he said.

Mr Tusk stressed that "it is worth realising just how big a chance it is and how many opportunities come along with a Polish person as President of the European Council."

"For now, I will leave the reasons for which the Polish government does not want or know how to take advantage of those opportunities," he added. He reassured that "on his part, he's doing everything he can to the best of his ability."

The former Polish PM said that at the time when he was chosen as the new head of the European Council "there were no indications that PiS would wield whole power in its hands."

"If not for the unexpected defeat of Bronisław Komorowski and the self-annihilation of the left, the proportions (in the separation of powers) would look a bit different and, in my opinion, much safer for Poland," he said.

Mr Tusk added that "we know many PiS supporters who also didn't expect that success would bring not only massive attacks on any opponents, but also on the foundations of the rule of law and the constitution."

Asked about the recent poll showing a decrease in approval for PiS, the former prime minister said that the core group of supporters, although not the majority, was heavily disappointed "when the independent judiciary was under attack."

"My experience tells me that each government in power gets used up, not only because of the mistakes made, it's just a matter of time. I think that the current cabinet has made enough mistakes, for many Poles to start to question the logic behind its actions," said the former PM. At the same time he pointed out that "there are sudden thrusts of support" for the ruling party.

Donald Tusk was also asked about the recent rewards for Beata Szydło's cabinet, as well as those received during the time when he was in office. He answered that "those were very rare cases". "I made sure that strictly politicians, who were not lower-level officers, but constitutional ministers, didn't receive any rewards at all," he pointed out.

"I'm not here to bargain over the differences in approach to this issue, but anyone can see that this difference is staggering," he said.

Asked about his view on the unification attempts by the Polish opposition, Donald Tusk said that "such unifications are natural reactions to the government’s actions." As he explained, "the current government has marked a new division line in Polish politics".

"This new line divides the Polish political scene in approach to the constitution, the rule of law, and the political philosophy as a whole," Mr Tusk convinced.

"In a sense, the PiS government's endeavours should help its opponents, who are actually the whole opposition, realise that they must find a way to respond to this new division. Therefore, if PiS has set the approach to the rule of law as priority in Polish politics, then, in my opinion, the opposition should acknowledge this fact. That's why the formation of a wide opposition block seems very rational to me," said the President of the European Council.

The former PM shared his view on the presidential veto of the so-called demoting act.

"I would set aside the speculations on whether general Jaruzelski or general Hermaszewski are the problem here. The root of the problem lies not in whose name may be affected by this bill. As chief of armed forces, the President must not accept a situation where politicians decide the fate of officers, over possible demotions, as it would be devastating to the morale of the army," said Mr Tusk.

"I understand that people are sentimental about the Solidarity era, the martial law years. However, I don't think it's wise to initiate any actions that may undermine the stability of the Polish defence system. Especially today, in the context of the very unpredictable current international situation, where safety is first, stability and predictability should be Poland’s top priorities," said Tusk.

"In this respect, I understand president Duda's veto. I do remember his other veto, on an issue of, at least equal importance, the independence of the judiciary and the Constitutional Tribunal. I would, however, suggest waiting before judging the true motivation behind this veto and its consequences," Mr Tusk cautioned.

Donald Tusk was also asked about the possibility of the European Commission withdrawing the Article 7 procedure initiated against Poland, in light of the draft amendments to the acts on the Supreme Court, the National Judiciary Council and the Constitutional Tribunal, all recently submitted by PiS in parliament.

"It would be best, if the Polish government could convince, above all else, the people, but also the European Commission, that it's their true intention to depart from the most controversial or even shocking endeavours. My intention is to convince Europe that problems stemming from faulty legislation are only temporary," said Mr Tusk.

The President of the European Council thinks that the changes proposed by PiS, to the acts reforming the judiciary, still seem to be of "cosmetic" nature.

He expressed his hope that either the current government or the future parliament "will repeal or, at least correct these changes, as it is in our common interest to have a strong Poland in the EU". According to Mr Tusk, Poland's position in Europe is the gist of the problem.

At the same time, he stressed that what is even more important than the Article 7 procedure and possible sanctions, are the long-term solutions that may affect Poland. Mr Tusk pointed to the question of "how much money Poland will receive from the coming European funds".

"In Europe, there is no desire to impose sanctions on anyone. There may be claims, some concerns, but in order to punish a country, it must be an absolutely extraordinary situation. Apart from that, absolute unison would be needed, or at least an overwhelming majority," Mr Tusk observed.

"No one with a sound mind would question the enormous significance the 400 billion zloty received in the last EU budget, will have for the development of Poland, in the coming decades. I really wish that Poland doesn't lose a single dime, just because someone in Poland proposed solutions unacceptable to anyone else," said Mr Tusk.

"Either way, I will do anything in my might so that Poland doesn't have to suffer, especially in discussions over the budget. I wish, even if this is only an excuse, that everyone in Brussels will agree that it is still worth investing in Poland, that it's not worth crossing-out and the current problems are only temporary. PiS will not last forever," he said.

"The position of Poland in Europe is something worth fighting for, even if the PiS government is not helping it much," convinced Donald Tusk.

"I would like to speak positively about this government, partly because of my function, regardless if PiS is an opponent, a danger or a problem to me," he said, adding that unfortunately he cannot "complain over there being excessive contact".

"Strictly speaking, former PM Szydło wasn't, and current PM Morawiecki isn't interested in any broader cooperation with me, despite my several attempts at contact with them," he said.

In Mr Tusk's opinion, "there's so much more to win for Poland, if only, despite all the prejudice and political aversions, we could agree that there is something far more important, namely Poland's strategic interest".

"I'm ready for such cooperation, but it takes two to tango," said the President of the European Commission.

Our guest on TVN24 was asked if, in light of the ongoing proceedings of the Amber Gold Affair House Committee, is he worried about his son Michał.

"There is no doubt that he was the victim of a witch-hunt. My son is an honest, intelligent and, as it turned out, a very brave man. So no, I'm not worried. On the other hand, I'm a father to my child, and even though he's a grown-up man, I suffer when I see what some people are trying to do to him," said Donald Tusk.

The President of the European Commission admitted that he felt endangered not "during that TV show (House Committee hearings), but when someone broke a window in my son's apartment" and the authorities found "the case unsolvable for many months".

The investigation was carried out by the prosecutor's office in Gdańsk-Wrzeszcz. It was conducted with special attention towards property damage and, since the perpetrator couldn't have known if someone was inside, exposure to loss of health and life.

At the end of 2017, the prosecutor decided to discontinue the proceedings due to the failure to identify the perpetrator, but the police were still trying to establish his identity. The perpetrator turned out to be a 42 year-old man who turned himself in after seeing the footage from the incident in the media.

Donald Tusk was asked about the method of governing in Law and Justice, adopted by Jarosław Kaczyński. He said that the key difference between the current model and the one he preferred when he was prime minister and leader of Civic Platform, is "the question of direct legal and constitutional responsibility."

Mr Tusk indicated that "today Jarosław Kaczyński makes decisions of informal character."

"The power of an informal character is always susceptible to temptations far more dangerous than the power embedded in the political system," he said.

The former PM said the "negative, often very dangerous developments have their roots in the government" and they result from the fact that "the true decision-makers of the state are not subject to constitutional rules and hold no legal or constitutional responsibility for their actions."

"In my opinion, it's always very dangerous," said Donald Tusk.

Asked about his Easter wishes for Jarosław Kaczyński, Mr Tusk said that he would wish him "more cheerfulness and a little bit more of good old happiness in everyday life".

To the Polish people he wished hope. "As Easter is all about hope, in the long-term rather than the short, I guess it's a good time to remind ourselves that it's good to have hope. Today, all of us, and I mean all Polish people with no exceptions, we still have all the necessary tools, and really good reasons to share a common hope for a better future for Poland," the President of the European Commission concluded.

Autor: gf / Źródło: tvn24